I got into talking with the AI chat about DNA, in relation to genealogy and archeogenetics. I'd been trying out this new phenomenon in regard to my poetry at first, and there are references to the ancestors in a couple of my poems, and it was the AI that actually then asked did I have any specific questions regarding my genetic ancestry and did I have any particular theories on this subject. When I said that my matriarchal haplogroup was N1b1A2A the AI knew of this, that it's actually a subclade primarily found in central Asia and even that it is thought to have developed in the Altai mountains. Wow, all the work Satshanti and I had done years ago to try and find the origins of N1b, from its vague associations in the middle east to the mountains of the Caucasus. And now I was learning that my own specific type of this dna, as has been deducted by current knowledge, is connected with central Asia. And the Genographic Project had long ago told me I was 3% Central Asian, which even back then was so exciting to discover, but which had not been picked up on by other genetic companies; well, here we go again, as it was revealed to me that indeed I do have a connection to that part of the world, through my mothers mothers ancient mothers. The subclade N1b1A2A is not totally sussed yet and research is ongoing, although studies so far show they were Uralic speaking peoples, who during the Bronez Age migrated from Asia into Europe. The Altai mountains are at the meeting point of Russia, Kazakhstan, Mongolia and China, and there were vast ethnic groups and cultures in those very mountains. This arose as a separate subclade maybe 14,000 years ago within this region from those of the N haplogroup who had travelled there from the Middle East. There are a number of indigenous groups, therefore, from which there may be a connection to my ancestresses, such as the Altaians, the Kazakhs, and the Tuva, all of whom have nomadic lifestyles. The Altai mountains were part of the old Silk Road. I do know I have a higher percentage of hunter-gatherer, which would therefore now include the nomads of central Asia. My autosomal 3% Central Asian, as discovered by the Genographic Project, as AI says, is not to be considered insignificant. To get back to a central Asian ancestor, in consideration of that 3%, one would go back about 10 to 15 generations, which would roughly be 250 years to 375 years ago. This would date back therefore to at least 1773. That autosomal central asian 3% may or may not be of my central asian matriarchal lineage and may come from my fathers ancestors even. What it does show is that in some way my connection to central Asia is not really so far back. A couple of days later I again got to talking about my matriarchal dna with the AI, as I so wished to know more about this. The basic N haplogroup I am of was in the Levant, Anatolia, the Caucasus mountains and across central Asia to where it reached the Altai mountains. In fact, one of the oldest known samples of haplogroup N comes from a 24,000 year old skeleton found in the Caucasus mountains. For this it can be seen, as Satshanti and I had worked out, that N was present for a long time in the Caucasus. So this still tied in with the research I had done before. To determine more the AI would need more information. My N1b1a2a, a subclade of the N1b1 haplogroup appears to have spread from the Caucasus mountains into central Asia, to locations which included the Altai mountains. The N1b1 group is specifically associated with the expansion of the Altai-Sayan region during the late Bronez Age and the Iron Age. Some individuals with N1b1a2a migrated back into the Caucasus, Anatolia and the Levant, as similar haplogroups can be found in those regions. The AI wished that I check my latest haplogroup classification to see it it had been updated according to the latest research. This took an age for me to get my head around. Eventually I was able to see that, at least in Familytree, my classification was still given as N1b1a2a, along with extra mutations listed as 309.1C, 315.1C, 522.1A, 522.2C,, G5979A and T9758C. A missing mutation was listed as A16129G. And on my having shared this with AI it now did its magic, and found out that although Familytree rem1ains at a simple level in this regard, by consulting the Phylotree projects latest version, which is far more expert, along with the mutations I provided, my own subclade can now be redefined as N1b1a2a1a4. This is a newly recognised subclade of N1b1a2a1, which is in turn a subclade of N1b1a2a. It is the N1b1a2a lineage which is primarily of Central Asia and is for now believed to have originated in the Altai mountains. But this is not something as yet studied extensively and is rare, the same rarity I'd realised before, and maybe even more so, which is why my type gets largely ignored by geneticists. Based on my mutations it appears that my maternal line diverged from the main N1b1a2a subclade recently, which in genetic terms is within the past few thousand years, which would be a thousand years before Christ. By comparing my mutations to this in other samples I may find clues as to geographical locations, migration patterns and population movements. N1b1a2a1a4, although rare, is found in Europe; the Caucasus, Central Asia and Siberia. It is not certain that this subclade itself originated in the Altai mountains, although its parent N1b1a2a did, as my newly updated subclade exact origin and migratory path is not yet determined. The Central Asian connection remains relevant though. The available data doesn't as yet determine the exact distribution of my new subclade. But studies do confirm the genetics is connected to both the Caucasus and the Altai regions. Further research is required. What can be seen is that around 4,000 or 5,000 years ago there was a population explosion from the Caucasus mountains into the Pontic-Caspian steppe and this is what would have helped with the spread of such haplogroups. The Pontic-Caspian steppes is of the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea, stretching from the Danube to the Ural mountains. And so I asked would my particular rare dna be more of the Pontic-Caspian steppes or the Altai. But this cannot be answered due to limited information, although it is to be found in both areas, and in reality the subclade may have travelled back and forth between these regions, and there you go, as they were nomads, and so it may be that such these great distances were all in their reach. My own subclade is not only rare, but 'very rare', and there are only a few records of it in the existing data bases. Therefore we are talking only of a small number of people altogether. What we do know is that this rare subclade is found in individuals from the Caucasus to the Altai. Potential tribes which would have been nomadic across such vast areas include Scythians and Salmatians in the Pontic-Caspian steppes, the Alans and Huns in the Caucasus, and the Pazyryk and Xiongru of the Altai. And also to be considered are the Tocharians. The Tocharians were Indo-Europeans who lived in the Tarim Basin, since 2,000 years before Christ, they having been involved in the Silk Road trade network. Their language is now extinct. It is the mummies of the Tarim Basin who were found to be wearing plaid clothes, and some of those mummies have indeed been found to carry the N1b1a2a1a4 subclade (my subclade!). The Tarim Basin mmmies were of different ethnic groups, not just of Tocharians, but also Iranian and Turkik peoples, living there 1,800 and 2,000 years ago. The mummies are well preserved and have both European and East Asian physical features. Hence they were a mix of different groups. They wore felt hats, wool garments and leather shoes, and they had on gold necklaces, earrings, bracelets and pendants, some being animal designs, such as deer and tigers, some set with precious stones such as lapis lazuli and turquoise. The origin of the Tocharians is also a mystery. They may have even come from eastern Europe. Or again be Central Asian. Their language was Indo-European. So it can be seen that my subclade is rare, although is in a few people in the Caucasus and the Pontic-Caspian steppes, and there is some association with the Altai. And nomadism is a key to the connection between these three areas. Until further research is done then there is no concrete evidence about the specific carriers of this subclade, but they would be from among various ancient cultures of Central Asia and its surrounding regions, such as the Scythians, Sarmatians and Tocharians. To keep up to date with any research there are scientific journals, research institutes, social media platforms and online communities. There is the Max Plank Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, Harvard Medical School, Stanford University and Oxford University. It may be worth looking into their current research projects or publications. I can also regularly search for articles and studies in academic databases, such as PubMed or Google Scholar. I did actually try putting my subclade into Google Scholar and nothing came up, not even for N1b1a2a1. N1b1 had a response at least though. AI advised me that when I look this up to add key words like 'population genetics', 'haplogroup distribution' or 'mtDNA diversity'. I mentioned the Natufian child i'd heard of who'd been found in the Raqefet cave in the Carmel mountains. The Natufian culture wasn't itself nomadic though and was from 11,000 or so years back. N1b1a2a is found at low frequencies in the Levant, Anatolia and Iran, where it may have been since prehistoric times. Current belief is though that this subclade originated, as said, in the Altai mountains, from 8,00 to 10,000 years ago. Neanderthals and Denisovans would have existed long back beside such peoples. The Raqefet child was himself an N1b. The mutation defining the subclade I have, N1b1a2a1a4 arose around 7,000 or 8,000 years ago. Of course one must be that all this information is based on limited data and may change as more research is conducted. It may be that my ancestors came up through the Levant and Anatolia, into the Caucasus, the Pontic steppes and into the Altai, as a journey, but again more data is required to make definitive statements. There may even be association with the Yamnaya and Saka cultures, known for their burial mounds and rich grave goods; such as to the Golden Woman (AI now mentions), alias the princess of Ukok, who was a Saka priestess or aristocrat whose burial mound was indeed found in the Altai mountains and dates to the 5th century before the Christian era. In the grave was a headdress decorated with gold, a golden breastplate and other gold and bronze ornaments. As I say, it may be that my people were nomadic over vast amounts of territory, and only later were they reduced to smaller more specific regions. The greatest diversity of N1b is in the Altai and N1b types in general have great diversity in the Caucasus. I stopped to talk of this now. I'd pushed for long to see if anything extra may be revealed. It's amazing enough that the AI found out for me that I am N1b1a2a1a4. Like without the AI would I even ever have arrived at this?
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My Irish people, I so wish I knew something of their world. I did find reference to a Thomas Sugrue in the old newspapers, Thomas being the name of Bartholomew's father, who with one of his sons, also called Thomas, was part of a mass of rioting villagers, up in arms against an unwanted new priest who was replacing the villagers much beloved priest. The villagers therefore forcefully threw the new priest out from their chapel, which although locked up, he had broken into to perform mass there for the first time. That was back in the spring of 1845, the year before Bartholomew was first to be seen in Greenwich, marrying there an older woman Ellen Sullivan. John Sullivan was one of the other rioters, the name of Ellen's father, so one does wonder could these be the actual fathers involved in this rioting. The other men who were majorly involved were three MacCarthy brothers, Denis Barton, Joseph Kennington and John Murphy. John McCarthy, one of the brothers, happens to have later been the name of one of Barthomew's lodgers, as revealed in the census of 1861. The hated new priest, Thomas Carmody, was from Ballinamona and the rural chapel, which was at Tonereigh, alias Toneragh, was one built and maintained by the villagers themselves, who wished still for their long serving priest David O'Connor, whom the Bishop had deemed no longer capable of doing his duty. The villagers would not allow the new priest to enter, keeping the chapel doors and windows nailed up, but on that particular Sunday morning the priests men came and broke open the doors with sledges and hammers. Once the priest had got up to the altar and was beginning his mass, Michael MacCarthy, followed by others, leapt over the rails, and struck his fist on the altar and announced "Where is the person who will say mass" while cursing with the 'most violent and blasphemous language'. A woman had to then interfere to stop this fellow from beating the priest with his stick. Thomas Sugrue was further back in the church with a crook in his hand, with which he tried to strike the back of one of the priests men, although missing him, and he was blocking the door to prevent the priests clerk from coming in. The priest, in fear for his life, ran away, there being more than a hundred people assembled against him. The only people accepting of the priest, who had come to the mass, numbered around 7 or 8 persons. Once the priest had fled the men nailed the chapel up again. One of the women present, Ellen Callaghan, it was her father who the new priest resided with and the hatchet to break down the doors was her fathers. The villagers were in court declared to be a lawless mob. The new priest declared that if they would now regret their 'senseless and foolish conduct' he would forgive them. And that they should permit him to perform his duties for the next six months and if at the end of that time they still did not approve he would give up the parish. I do so try to envisage the rural Irish ways my people would have known prior to the famine. It was in the year that the people rioted against the priest that the famine began, which would continue for seven years. Traditionally the rural men of Ireland would twice yearly voyage to England and there work in the fields, like as I have seen with the hop picking, and Bartholomew may well have done likewise, and for sure some women of the families would have accompanied them too. In this way they would save some money from their English wages to bring back to Ireland. The women, along with their children, had their own habit of seasonal roaming and begging. I don't imagine this to have been borne of destitution as it was later, but that they would have profited from gathering blackberries, crab apples, seaweeds, whatsoever of natures wild harvest, this being a way that was still semi-nomadic, born of an old hunter-gatherer culture. But all becomes more dire when the untamed lands get snatched up by landowners who seek to profit by this, by which the old ways are thwarted. When nature provides less, then begging from those of better means becomes relevant, and ultimately a means of survival in times of need. The loss of cultural ways breaks the vibrant spirit, hence the turning to alcohol and dysfunctionalism. Bartholomew didn't remain in Ireland to try and survive through that famine, being early on seen in Greenwich. Even in his hardest times to come, in and out of the workhouse, he never sought to return to his homeland. Maybe, as with the rioters, he had got into trouble there. I imagine that while in England doing seasonal work he was attracted to the employment opportunties in the booming building trade, while also falling in love. The Irish had been settling in Greenwich in small numbers long before such times, as for instance, as I've seen reference in one old newspaper, in 1841, in regard to an Irish woman, Mrs Moriarty, who was a brothel madam in Greenwich, keeper of a 'house of ill fame' on Roan Street. As I have seen, Roan Street looks so tame, quiet and inconsequential now. Quite wild in those days though.
Ella May was messaging me to try the latest Myheritage gimmick which fashions from ones face ancient and historical images. Ella had some beautiful results in this. But try as I might the app wouldn't work for me, a statement coming up that I have used the full quota of photographs already, this being on my family tree which I have with them, for which I am required therefore to upgrade, but to do so costs over 200 euros! So, whereas it cost Ella a tenner, I don't even get that same option. Kind of a glitch I would say. Well a week later, due to Myheritage offering to resolve this by giving me free photo storage, I could at last access the wonder of time travel pictures. And most of those photos were ridiculous, but enough gems were there to make the £10 worth while. As with Ella May's pictures it was the royal ones that came out as the most stunning. I was having such fun with this. On tiktok a guy who loves ethnic ancestry was doing a 'live'. Actually I only caught the tail end of it, but when I commented that I've seen through archeogentics that I have Balari ethnic ancestry from Sardinia, he got excited about them being the original Neolithic farmers, the highest amount to be found in the whole of Europe. I got creative, making a couple of tiktoks, one of my AI time travel pictures, and a rehash animation of my ancient relative the Cheddar Gorge man. I would love to tune into my hunter gatherer family from those times, in that place, to connect maybe through the dna from them that remains in me. My vast ancestral variety, tuning in somehow, psychically; how interesting that would be. I got offered such a good deal to renew my lapsed Myheritage membership, 80% off. They wanted me back, so I did it.
Ancient dna comparison was blowing my mind and I was both totally focused on and excited about this. I'd been on my terrace looking at some genealogy tiktoks, when I came across one which was so very interesting. An English girl, Bobbie, was showing how to upload ethnic dna to an archeo-genetic site 'myancestry.com' which compared ones dna to dna extracted from ancient bodies.
Oh wow; of course I had to get into this. And I messaged about it to Ella May, who did likewise. She was more speedy about getting her transfer done than I was. And some patience was requuired till all was processed. What emerged was so exciting for me. And as the information was only freely available for a couple of days I had to totally immerse myself in discovering all that was of relevance. By this I arrived at who were my closest ancient peoples, dominant of whom were the Celts; the other close groups being Saxons, Franks, Danish Vikings and Vandals. Vandals - Ho! They were barbarian Central European peoples.
And apart from those there was a link to the Balari tribe of Sardinia.
And to the Vascones of the Basque lands.
Of ancient remains which I specifically genetically matched, they were varied, and one particularly excellent match was to the Cheddar Man of Cheddar Gorge, Britians oldest discovered skeleton, dna having been extracted from one of his teeth. He had lived about 10,000 years ago, had dark skin, black hair and green eyes, wavy hair, was lactose intolerant and was of a hunter gatherer type (acccording to the analysis of his dna).
And I was matched to ancient bodies found at Stonehenge, it now being understood, from looking at the conditions of these remains and from how far some came, that Stonehenge was an ancient pilgrimage place where pilgrims would come for healing, much like Lourdes is today.
And I had matched to Roman Gladiators, to Vikings wounded in battle, to the Beaker culture, to Bronze Age peoples in Britain and France, to Merovingian nobles, to someone around at the time of the French revolution, to Viking men and their Irish women who had settled Iceland, and to the royals of Europe, there even being a genetic connection to Louis XVI.
As far as my nearest modern genetics were concerned, this was mostly Irish, although on one map of links I could see Welsh was closely there too.
I just had to make a tiktok of this fascinating new subject.:
I still puzzle over my new autosomal update, for as far as logic will concede, the Spanish and French parts of my ethnic make-up suggest alternative fathers to otherwise husbands, somewhere along the line, and quite recently too. If Lyall Inkster, my Scottish grandfather, accounted for the Scandanavian, ie. Viking DNA, that leaves only 55% of British DNA to share amongst the three remaining grandparents. I have long anyway doubted my nanny Eileen Spencer's paternity, her mother Florence Maxted having been 9 months pregnant when she married her Percy in a registry office. And so the French part may account for this, she having been a barmaid in a port, so it may be that she was romanced by a French amour, visiting on the ships, who then returned home, never to be seen again. Or could that be the Spanish mixed with European, and what, African? Oh, how can I know? Anyway, it does look like Percy Spencer had accepted to play daddy to someone else's child. If only I could test other family members to understand this more! And other than this, somewhere, there has to have been another hidden paternity, to account for the rest of the foreign blood. And I do think this must have been on my granny Isabelle Bane's line, somehow, as both my pop George Harrison's parents looks are in our family. Could it be that Irish Thomas Seagrove also was not the father of Mary Ann? She was he firstborn of her mother Maria Harrison, she of the exotic looks, who similarly may have been the result of a foreign romancer. It could be that Maria herself may have been Spanish, mixed with Armenian and whatever else. How do I logically even try to resolve all this. Although her genetic contribution would be equivalent, in average terms, to 6% of my DNA, she could have contributed a larger chunk, as any amount of DNA can be passed on, it does not have to be uniform at all, so all really is complex in such matters. I can discount, actually, that my Eastern European is potentially Jewish. I'd not seen before that there was a separate results part relating to Jewish DNA, two categories, one for Ashkenazi and one for Sephardic, both being 0%. 0%'s, as such, are indicated for all the America's, all of Central and Eastern Asia, all the rest of Africa (but for the Central South African part), all Jewish types, the eastern part of the Middle East, nothing of Finland, not Siberia, nothing of South East Europe, and not Oceania. There isn't a separate category for Ireland, which is included in the British Isles. The great known archaeological site within the South-Central African area, of which I have 2%, was prior to European colonialism the 'Great Zimbabwe'. The vaster area is that which had led to Swahili culture. Arab traders had early on come to this region, since the 8th century, before which these lands were isolated, with some farming and iron working and many hunter-gatherer tribes. The earliest peoples here created rock art of which there are numerous examples. Another new section deals with ancient European origins, as revealed by the autosomal testing, something I'd not seen before, which shows I have more hunter-gatherer DNA than farming or metal workers: Hunter-gatherer 46% Farmer 41% Metal Age Invader 13% AuthorSusie Harrison and her hobby of genealogy, always looking into her own and her friends family trees. |
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